Ireland (state)

[ASweeney]

I've just moved [[Ireland (state)]] into mainspace.  Please have a look, let me know what needs to be improved, and check the talk page to see if I've got the checklist right :-)

Thanks in advance!

[Martin Baldwin-Edwards]

My first thought (and I know that there has been some argument over these things) is that the heading should be IRELAND (Republic of). Unless you intend to talk about Ireland as a geographical area, and thereby including Northern Ireland, this makes the most sense. I have never heard anyone mention the State of Ireland!

[ASweeney]

Yep, discussion on this thread: http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,859.0.html.

My intention would be that the main geographical data (climate, geology, flora and fauna, etc.) would be at [[Ireland, Island of]] or [[Ireland (island)]].

[Martin Baldwin-Edwards]

Yes, I think I agree with you, having read the link you provided. I also suggest that we need a disambiguation page for Britain, as apparently the name includes all of Ireland.

My preferred names for the pages would be:

Ireland (island)
Ireland (Republic of)

I am also in discussion over Countries of the World, and probably next week I will try to set up some definitive lists. See countries of the world talk page for more on that. But basically, I am in agreement with everything you have said on these issues.

[Derek Harkness]

I've been checking Ireland extensively. Ireland's name is Ireland and it is referred to as such in treaties such as the Accession treaty to the EU which I just read part of today. This treaty see http://www.bmdf.co.uk/ukaccessiontreaty.pdf It refers to "Kingdom of Denmark, Ireland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" Note that Denmark is 'Kingdom of' but Ireland is not 'Republic of'

There is a historical reason for Ireland's name. When Ireland first seceded form the UK it was not a Republic. The Queen remained the head of state in the same manor as for Canada and Australia. Also, the state was called the 'Irish Free State'. In 1937 the name changed to simply 'Ireland' but it was still not a republic. I can imagine the name was contentious at the time, as it still is a bit in the UK now, since it implies that the Republic and the island should be coterminous. It did not become a republic until 1948. However, the change in form of government did not include a change in the name. It remained 'Ireland'.

Both names, Ireland and Republic of Ireland carry strong political connotations regarding the independence of Ireland and the ownership of Norther Ireland. Within the UK, Ireland is often referred to as 'The Republic' and northern Ireland referred to as 'Ireland' in order to exert a political opinion in favour of Norther Ireland Unionists. Such usage has diminished since my youth as 'The Troubles' have largely calmed down and the Stormont Assembly setup. (Though it's currently suspended.)

The use of names of counties frequently has a bias. Often, due to language barriers, we are not aware of the bias. So to avoid being accused of bias, we must choose names very very carefully.

[Nat Krause]

As for the question of [[Republic of Ireland]] vs. [[Ireland (Republic of)]], I think this relates to the conventions under discussion here: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ_Talk:Naming_Conventions#plea_for_logic_and_order

[ASweeney]

The [[Ireland (state)]] article http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Ireland_%28state%29 has had a bit of work done on it since I originally brought it in from WP.  Would I be in order to add a CZ Live category to it?

[Derek Harkness]

Of course it should be CZ Live. It should also be checklisted status 1 (or 2 if your modist). The 3 significant edits boundery was passed long time back.