Good morning, folks.
I joined a a couple of days ago and have begun work on two articles - one on Ireland (the modern state, member of the EU and UN); and one on Ireland (the island).
In an effort to forestall and avoid the continuous arguments on WP about the "correct" naming of such articles, and in accordance with
CZ:Naming Conventions, I created Ireland as a dismbiguation page, with (currently red)links to articles on both the above topics.
Some discussion has followed on the talk page (copied below) and I'd like to bring it here for some wider input.
What's been said:
==Naming Irish articles==
Editor in Chief, Larry Sanger just used the edit summary of "(Rendering anticipated names consistent with CZ:Naming Conventions)" when changing the title of "Ireland, Republic of" to "Republic of Ireland" and "Ireland, Island of" to "Ireland (island).
However, I think he is wrong on one reading of the reference he provided:
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Naming_Conventions#Typographical_and_stylistic_ruleswhich currently emboldens: "'''put keywords first'''"
Since we can safely envision more than three Ireland articles developing over the course of time I would respectfully suggest that this reference encourages a series of articles named after this pattern:
* Ireland, Republic of
* Ireland, Southern (interim state in 1922)
* Ireland, Rugby in
* Ireland, prehistory
* Ireland, missionaries from
* Ireland, writers from
* Ireland, traditional sports etc, etc
[[User:W. Frank|W. Frank]] 18:18, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
:The main problem I see there is with the first one - "Ireland, Republic of". The Irish Constitution says "Article 4: The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."[http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/html%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland%20(Eng)Nov2004.htm] The ''description'' of the state, according to the Republic of Ireland Act, 1948, is the "Republic of Ireland" [http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA22Y1948S2.html]. (Note: [[User:W. Frank|W. Frank]] has mentioned that this has changed, but I didn't manage to find a reference to the change today). Now, on WP, there have been pages and pages of arguments, polls, etc., about where articles should reside - currently, over there,
* "Republic of Ireland" is the article on the state, Ireland;
* "Ireland" is the article on the island as a whole;
* "Ireland (disambiguation)" is (obviously) a disambiguation page linking to both the above, plus "Northern Ireland", plus former political entities on the island, people with Ireland as a surname, etc.
:The gist of the argument is that the article on the state should not have to reside at a page named after its description, rather than its proper name. The prevailing consensus is that it would be too much trouble to move pages around and that things work fine as they are. However, every so often, someone kicks off the debate again...
:Here at CZ, we have the opportunity to do things right from the start. My initial idea is that we should have:
* Ireland - a disambiguation page, linking to:
* Ireland - the island;
* Ireland - the state;
primarily in order to forestall such interminable recurring arguments.
:I'm open as to what the actual names of the articles are, though for the reasons stated, I do think calling the article on the state either "Ireland, Republic of" or "Republic of Ireland" would be a mistake.
:At this stage of CZ's life - I'm wondering is this the correct place to have this debate, or should it be in a more "central" location such as the Geography forum, or [[CZ:Geography Workgroup]]? Regards, [[User:Anton Sweeney|Anton Sweeney]] 18:57, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
The rule you found was articulated by a new arrival to ''Citizendium'' who has made that rule as a proposal. I disagree with it, and I've removed it, pending a discussion by the Editorial Council.
I do agree that a more central location such as the Geography forum would be more appropriate. --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 20:25, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
In essence, what I'd like to do is have [[Ireland]] remain as a dismbiguation page, linking (initially) to
[[Ireland (state)]]
[[Ireland (island)]]
or [[Ireland, Island of]]. (And whichever isn't used as the article title would be created as a redirect page to the other).
Also, [[Ireland, Republic of]] and [[Republic of Ireland]] could be created as redirect pages to the article on the modern state.
This has the disadvantage that anyone coming to the CZ website and typing in "Ireland" will initially land on a disambiguation page, not on either one of the two articles that they were most likely to have been seeking. However, those articles are just one click away, and there is the considerable advantage that arguments about insults to the state, etc., are forestalled.
Anyway - those are my thoughts, I'd like to hear yours.
Regards,
ASweeney
