Page layout/format brainstorming

[Larry Sanger]

Fredrik,

Both of your mock-ups are better than what we have now, although I think I like your first better than your second.  The three column idea coheres nicely with this proposal: http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,973.0.html

Now, what's the way forward?  Let's not let your work go to waste.  Basically, the community and Executive Committee need a definite proposal, or two or three to choose from.  Everyone can discuss it here on the Forums (you can announce your proposal on Citizendium-L) and then the Executive Committee can look at the resulting discussion and actually make a choice.  We also need instructions about how to implement, files to upload, or pointers.  Basically, the easier we can make this on the people who will actually make the changes (especially Jason Potkanski), the better.

Please take charge.  I really lack time to work on this issue other than just to write what I'm writing now.  Help Jason and I and the Executive Committee to make this a reality.

--Larry

[Fredrik Johansson]

All right, I'll write down a more detailed plan (I have a project to finish this week though). I'll try to incorporate your "subpages and sidebar proposal" as an application for a three-column layout.

By the way, can someone move this thread to "Initiatives and projects"?

[Fredrik Johansson]

Sorry for not following up on this yet. I'm going to make a third mockup that mixes elements from the first two and incorporates the new subpage navigation menu, very soon.

[Fredrik Johansson]

Take 3

[Aleta Curry]

High Five, Fredrik!

May I just say that I appreciate your doing all this work?

Could I just suggest that "Contributors" read "Contributor's Tools"  instead?

I'm going to have a good long study of this when I have more time!

[Chris Day]

High Five, Fredrik!

Another beauty.  This gives us some great stuff to kick around.

[Derek Harkness]

I like the main section and left column, but I think the 'Project Information' section is a bit cluttered. I think that section needs thought out more. Also, the general colour scheme is still very wikipedia like. I think we should pick a different colour form the current pail blue in order to band our own image more strongly.

I you send me the html version/template you have, I can help make the CSS to put it on the site. I have my own mediawiki installation that we can use to test the layout if we need to.

[Fredrik Johansson]

I did a tiny modification that can be viewed here in HTML. This one has slightly more color (but not much). The code is just a quick ugly hack; it probably doesn't work in all browsers and needs to be rewritten. Derek, if you have a MediaWiki installation where we can play with this, that sounds great.

[Joe Quick]

I did a tiny modification that can be viewed here in HTML. This one has slightly more color (but not much). The code is just a quick ugly hack; it probably doesn't work in all browsers and needs to be rewritten. Derek, if you have a MediaWiki installation where we can play with this, that sounds great.

Very cool!  Much more visually appealing and professional looking.

My one and only criticism is that the contents section is a little intrusive as it interrupts the article text.  Could this be moved to the sidebar somehow, somewhere?  Maybe beneath the infoset?

[Fredrik Johansson]

I've always liked the table of contents placement. It gives some breathing space in long articles.

Besides, if it were in the sidebar, it'd be too easy to mistake for a set of links to other pages.

[Chris Day]

Besides, if it were in the sidebar, it'd be too easy to mistake for a set of links to other pages.

The table of contents would be far too cramped in the sidebar.  I think it looks pretty good at present.  The preamble should be a stand alone piece anyway, i.e. taste of what is to come.

[tkjazzer]

I like how this integrates subpages, but I still like having the edit button/tab and history/button tab and article(or draft) button/tab on the top of the article.

Looks beautiful overall.

[Aleta Curry]

I still like having the edit button/tab and history/button tab and article(or draft) button/tab on the top of the article.

That was my gut reaction, too, but then I asked myself,  "Is that because it's really better/more functional--or is it just that I'm so used to it?"

Fredrik, the page is gorgeous, but I'd still like to see "Contributors"  changed to "For Contributors" or "Contributor's Tools" or something that denotes it is for the use of contributors.  As it is, at first glance one expects a list of contributors.

[Joe Quick]

The table of contents would be far too cramped in the sidebar.  I think it looks pretty good at present.  The preamble should be a stand alone piece anyway, i.e. taste of what is to come.

On second thought, I think you're right.  I think I didn't like it in the example only because it takes up so much of the page.  But of course, tables of contents for shorter articles will be smaller and longer articles are, well, long enough that the TOC will be unintrusive.

In that case, I have no criticisms at all!

[Larry Sanger]

This is really fantastic work.  I usually have loads of criticisms (no, really, I do!), but as I study this, it's virtually perfect.  At first I thought that the project info shouldn't be at the top of the page, where it will have relatively little interest to most people most of the time.  But then I see that this frees up the all-important left margin for the subpages and for other material that is more closely associated with this article--very elegant.

OK, I have one possible criticism.  Your most recent mockup might have too much whitespace around the header dividing line...but maybe it makes sense.

There is a potentially deal-killing technical problem, however.  The list of subpages is part of the article.  Yes, we badly want the list of subpages not to be part of the article, but maintained and compiled by the software (if that makes sense), but right now, the only way we have of creating the list of subpages is via a template--which must then appear in the article space.  Well, I don't know if this is a deal-killer.  Can anyone say definitively?  We may need to consult a MediaWiki guru.  Or else, we need to get someone to write sidebar subpage display into the software (!).