Company logos

[Caesar Schinas]

I was going to upload logos for Microsoft and Apple, but they don't seem to fit any of the categories on the Image Upload Wizard.

Using company/product logos on articles about those companies/products is acceptable under fair use laws, isn't it? At any rate, all news websites etc do it. So does a certain other large wiki...
(By the way, someone here thinks Microsoft's logo is public domain because it's not original enough to be copyrighted. Is it really???)

So.. Shall I upload logos, or not?

[Milton Beychok]

Caesar:

The Upload Wizard does have an option for making a fair use claim. I have used it on a few occasions. It is the last option at the bottom of the Wizard. I used the section entitled "Notes" to write out my reasons for making a fair use claim.

When the option is used, the resulting license will be displayed as "Blah, Blah, Blah,....." which I assume means that Citizendium has not yet quite finished that coding that option. But I used it anyway. Users Joe Quick and Chris Day are aware of that situation and will probably straighten it out in the near future.

As for Microsoft and Apple logos, I have no knowledge as to whether or not they are copyrighted ... nor do I know if a fair use claim for using them is valid.

Milt

[Caesar Schinas]

Ah, yes, I see the options you are referring to - I just hadn't previously realised that this was their purpose; the usage of the word claim made me think that they were for owners of copyrighted images to complain about their images being used on CZ without permission. Now I've gone back and re-read it I see that I was, of course, wrong... but perhaps the wording could be clearer.

I shall, then, upload the logos using those options.

Thanks for your help.

[Chris Day]

While that can still be used for upload it still brings us back the question of which license is supposed to be used.  If someone knows i can add it to the media wiki menu option in the upload wizard.  Some options for license template we currently have coded can be found here. Are we missing some, or is it one of those we need to use?

[Caesar Schinas]

I don't think more are needed in this instance, Chris, it's just the Fair Use one. It's already on the list if you bypass the wizard, but if you use the wizard there are just placeholders.

I notice that there are notices all over the place saying not to upload fair use media... For example, if you go straight into the upload page, bypassing the wizard, you get to choose from licenses which really exist rather than just "Test template" three times. But the Fair Use one says, "not allowable currently". Also see eg http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Images#.22Fair_use.22 for another example.

Another problem is that I can't upload the file I'm trying to upload anyway. It's in SVG format, and I get an error saying that SVG isn't allowed each time I try. But there are other SVG images on CZ - so how do I do it? Obviously I could just convert it to PNG, but that seems a bit silly.

[Milton Beychok]

Chris:

The three templates (Template:Fairuse, Template:Fairuse-author and Template:Fairuse-editor) would appear to be what we need in this case but all three of them are marked as "Experimental, Do Not Use" by  our image maven, Stephen Ewen.

Is there any way to reach Stephen and ask for more explanation? Not only for these Fair Use options but for all of the "Blah, Blah, Blah ... " license options.

Also, can any of our Legal Editors be of help?

Milt
========================================

Caesar:

As for SVG inages, when I have run into that same problem, I have converted them to PNG image. Since I don't have the software for doing so, I have:

(1) Used Print Screen to copy it
(2) Then saved it into the Microsoft Paint program (available with the WIndows XP operating system)
(3)Then saved it as a PNG image.

That has worked well for me.

Milt

[Caesar Schinas]

Milt :
Yes, if all else fails I'll convert to PNG. And it sounds like it will, according to Chris on my talk page. I have Inkscape, so conversion is not a problem. (And I get to keep the transparent background too, unlike your system!  But that's not too important for usage here, since images  currently go on a plain white box anyway.)
--Caesar

[Chris Day]

But the Fair Use one says, "not allowable currently".

This might be why Stephen did not complete the wizard for uploading fair use images.  I wonder if that was before we had settled on our license or not. I imagine now we have a license we can finalize this issue.

Another problem is that I can't upload the file I'm trying to upload anyway. It's in SVG format, and I get an error saying that SVG isn't allowed each time I try. But there are other SVG images on CZ - so how do I do it? Obviously I could just convert it to PNG, but that seems a bit silly.

Seems there might be a browser issue. See this thread:

http://forum.citizendium.org/index.php/topic,1304.0.html

I just tried to upload a test svg file with Mozilla and Safari and no luck using the most up to date browser for 10.4.11

[Caesar Schinas]

I don't think so; MediaWiki converts the SVG to PNG for display. (Or is it a MediaWiki plugin? If so, yes, CZ does have it installed...) See for example http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Image:Water_molecule_3D.svg. The image shown on that page is a PNG, even though the SVG is available if you click on the link below the preview. (That's why Aleta Curry found that the SVG being discussed in that other thread looked OK in IE7...)

Note : I have now uploaded MS's logo in PNG format. I skipped the wizard so that I could choose the fair use license from the dropdown. It worked...
BTW : there is a grammatical error in the fairuse template - it says "it's" when it should say "its". I haven't looked yet, but I don't imagine I'll have editing permissions for it.

[Chris Day]

I don't imagine I'll have editing permissions for it.

I'm pretty sure you will.  Its a small project at the moment full of trustworthy people.

[Caesar Schinas]

Yes Chris; you're absolutely right, I was able to edit it. Makes a nice change from a certain other encyclopaedia project...

WP, by the way, has a lot of SVG images (as you may well already know). It does the conversion to PNG which I mentioned above, too.

[Caesar Schinas]

Does anyone know whether, in this context, CZ can be considered to be "press"?

Subject to the terms of this Agreement, you may use the Image solely in whole for editorial use by press and/or industry analysts. This right to use is personal to you and is not transferable by you to another party. The Image cannot be used to promote or sell any product or technology (such as on advertising, brochures, book-covers, stock photos, t-shirts, or other promotional merchandise). You may not alter, or modify the Image, in whole or in part, for any reason.

As between you and Apple, Apple is and shall remain the sole and exclusive owner of the Image. You will not delete, alter, or obfuscate any proprietary legends relating to the Image, and each use will be accompanied by the applicable proprietary attribution shown next to the Image.
The Image is provided by Apple on an ‘as is’ basis, without warranty of any kind, including non-infringement or ownership. You, not Apple, are responsible for your use of the Image. Any misuse of the Image or breach of this Agreement will cause Apple irreparable harm. Apple is either an owner or licensee of the image, not an agent for the owner. We understand that you will give our company a credit line as follows: “Courtesy of Apple “ and also credit the photographer if noted.

MSFT has a similar agreement, it turns out, while YHOO just offers a page of images for download on their press site, without any mention of licenses.

[Shamira Gelbman]

I'm resurrecting this old thread to double-check before I get my students started on their Eduzendium articles that "fair use" is the way to go for organizational logos. Have there been any new developments since this thread was last active?

[Joe Quick]

Yes, I think fair use is the way to go.  As long as the articles are actually about the companies/organizations whose logos are reproduced, fair use should cover any legal requirements.  We might eventually get explicit permission from each organization, but it would be too much to ask your students to try to do that for us.