ISBN Book References

[Graham Proud]

To further distance Citizendium from Wikipedia as the academics’ and professionals' encyclopaedia of choice, I thought we should take a leaf out of their book and then improve on it.

As an example, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensate_polisher and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0691004129.

Now add to that, automatic direct references to http://books.google.com/books?id=7PeSdVhFhxgC&pg=PA35 where the Citizendium article refers to a book, and http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=condensate+polisher&hl=en where the Citizendium article refers to a journal. 

Thoughts anyone?

Graham Proud

[Paul Wormer]

I'm not sure that I understand what you're proposing. Could you be a little more specific? Thank you.

[Hayford Peirce]

Hi, Graham,

Welcome aboard!  To conform to our rules for participants in these Forums, would you kindly go to the little tab in the middle of the page that says Profile, then scroll on down to the bottom of the screen and where it says Signature, put in something more or less like:

My CZ user page: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User:Your_CZName

This will enable your profile to be easily viewed by anyone who reads one of your messages here in the Forums. And thereby enables us, up to a point, at least, to make some sort of initial judgment about how much credence/deference/respect/belief/etc./etc. to give to anything you happen to post....

Thanks!

Hayford

[Aleta Curry]

Hi Graham!

Yes, please add your userpage link to your signature so we can learn all about you.

And please expand your thoughts a little more--use non-technical words if you can, so I can follow you!

(Psst!....Paul...glad to see you!)

[Graham Proud]

Hello - please visit my profile - you'll see that I am not an academic but over the last 5 years I have spent quite a bit of time working with universities in the development of a Masters program - so I am keen to see Citizendium become useful in that context.  I hope this explanation sheds a little light...

Here's my idea:

Google Books and Google Scholar are both good, low cost resources for the academic, professional and student.  The quality of a Citizendium article might be improved by providing quick and easy access to the material contained in those information sources.

So, whenever a Citizendium article includes a reference to a published text book, or a scholarly journal work, can we provide these direct links?

Some other examples in addition to the ones given earlier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_power_plant
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ABookSources&isbn=0070194351

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooling_tower_system
http://books.google.com/books?id=5U974BFa3pkC&pg=PA44&dq=isbn:0838585299


There are a number of Citizendium (and Wikipedia) facilities that appear to be automated.  Could this be automated somehow using the MediaWiki engine?

[Howard C. Berkowitz]

Google Books and Google Scholar are both good, low cost resources for the academic, professional and student.  The quality of a Citizendium article might be improved by providing quick and easy access to the material contained in those information sources.

So, whenever a Citizendium article includes a reference to a published text book, or a scholarly journal work, can we provide these direct links?

Perhaps I'm missing something about Google Books, which I frequently reference. When I do the Google search, the URL returned will give me some number of pages of text. Searching with slightly varied keywords can get me other URLs that get other samples of pages. Are you saying that there is a way to get a URL that accesses most or all of the book?

[Matt Innis]

Google Books and Google Scholar are both good, low cost resources for the academic, professional and student.  The quality of a Citizendium article might be improved by providing quick and easy access to the material contained in those information sources.

So, whenever a Citizendium article includes a reference to a published text book, or a scholarly journal work, can we provide these direct links?

Perhaps I'm missing something about Google Books, which I frequently reference. When I do the Google search, the URL returned will give me some number of pages of text. Searching with slightly varied keywords can get me other URLs that get other samples of pages. Are you saying that there is a way to get a URL that accesses most or all of the book?

I think Graham is just saying that we should give the google link and google scholar links as a common practice in all our references section or perhaps the bibliography for the benefit of students and researchers that can then have easier access to sources for their own work... or for more information.

Is that right, Graham?

[Graham Proud]

Perhaps I'm missing something about Google Books, which I frequently reference. When I do the Google search, the URL returned will give me some number of pages of text. Searching with slightly varied keywords can get me other URLs that get other samples of pages. Are you saying that there is a way to get a URL that accesses most or all of the book?

Yes! Great slabs of it! Here is an example:http://books.google.com/books?id=4ewKE8MZAZIC - click on the "more" link under the table of contents
Occasionally there will be two-page sections not included.

[Graham Proud]

I think Graham is just saying that we should give the google link and google scholar links as a common practice in all our references section or perhaps the bibliography for the benefit of students and researchers that can then have easier access to sources for their own work... or for more information.

Is that right, Graham?

Yes, but take it in two steps.  Baby Step 1 is adopt a style (or common practice to use your term) that we include the link to Google Books and/or Google Scholar in any article with such references.

Step 2 is making the MediaWiki engine automate the process somehow.  Any clues?

[Howard C. Berkowitz]

Perhaps I'm missing something about Google Books, which I frequently reference. When I do the Google search, the URL returned will give me some number of pages of text. Searching with slightly varied keywords can get me other URLs that get other samples of pages. Are you saying that there is a way to get a URL that accesses most or all of the book?

Yes! Great slabs of it! Here is an example:http://books.google.com/books?id=4ewKE8MZAZIC - click on the "more" link under the table of contents
Occasionally there will be two-page sections not included.

Oh! I realize that the URLs I've been posting are from Google searches,  but are at Amazon.  It looks like the trick is to click "Books" and not "Web" at Google Search.  The list returned, though, had entries described either as "limited entry" or "snippet".

As an aside, when one gets a book link at the National Academy of Sciences Press, you do get access to the whole book, but, variously, one screen per page or perhaps chapter. One must buy the book to get it as PDF (or, of course, hard copy). Does Google Books have an option like that to get through most of the book?

[Paul Wormer]

I'm terribly confused by this discussion.
1. Google books is  a highly frustrating tool.  In my experience the  needed info is invariably on Page not part of example  (or something similar, I get the message in Dutch).
2. I know Google Scholar as a search engine especially targeted at scholarly and scientific journals, why would one link to a search engine?

Would it not be better to give the digital object identifier (see http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/DOI) of the source whenever it is available?

[Milton Beychok]

I agree with Paul Wormer. I use Google books extensively ... but it is very, very frustrating!! Some of the books display only a limited number of pages, some only display a snippet from one page and some display no content at all. Only a small fraction of the books allow full access to every page and even then the scrolling is intentionally very, very slow. About the only easily accessed info are the ISBNs and the publishers of the books.

Milt Beychok