Proposal of CZ:Proposals

[Martin Baldwin-Edwards]

Oh, I didn't mean it as a criticism, Larry. Actually, I think that is what most people want in a democracy -- other people to do specific detailed work but also somehow to be accountable, in a general sort of way. Anyway, I am very supportive of the work done so far in this area.

[Larry Sanger]

I never stated that things should be "decided" there; I simply meant the page to be a community portal for requests.  However, I did initially provide a place for those requests to go if they were somehow actually approved.

Maybe I should have just called it CZ:RFC.

Well, you probably just misunderstood what I originally requested.  As I said there, Yet Another Place to Get Feedback About Proposals is the very last thing we need.  What we need (and are now getting!) is a place where people can make serious proposals, i.e., make suggestions that are expected to result in an actual official decision, as opposed to endless debate.

Also, just to be clear, I don't intend that the proposals system itself will make any ultimate decisions.  It only helps people get clear decisions out of decisionmakers.

[Larry Sanger]

Oh, I didn't mean it as a criticism, Larry. Actually, I think that is what most people want in a democracy -- other people to do specific detailed work but also somehow to be accountable, in a general sort of way. Anyway, I am very supportive of the work done so far in this area.

No worries, I know you didn't have any criticism.  I was reacting to this:

I suppose that, ultimately, Larry et al will produce a virtual black box: you will put the proposals inside it, and some of them will be shifted into different sections of the box, mysteriously go off to be discussed, and finally a few will emerge as CZ policy.

I would like the decisionmaking procedure to be as open as possible and as unlike a mysterious black box as possible.  But I also know that that is ultimately beyond my control.  I can try, but I might (probably will) fail.

[Robert_W_King]

I never stated that things should be "decided" there; I simply meant the page to be a community portal for requests.  However, I did initially provide a place for those requests to go if they were somehow actually approved.

Maybe I should have just called it CZ:RFC.

Well, you probably just misunderstood what I originally requested.  As I said there, Yet Another Place to Get Feedback About Proposals is the very last thing we need.  What we need (and are now getting!) is a place where people can make serious proposals, i.e., make suggestions that are expected to result in an actual official decision, as opposed to endless debate.

Also, just to be clear, I don't intend that the proposals system itself will make any ultimate decisions.  It only helps people get clear decisions out of decisionmakers.

When this is completed, there are several forum sections that should be shut down, namely "Initiatives and Projects", "Taxonomies and Categories", "New Board Requests" (which should have been gone long ago), "Internationalisation" (which is already on the wiki), and probably "Article Policy".

[Aleta Curry]

The question that I would like to see answered is: What states does a proposal go through? At the moment, most proposals seem to peter out after community discussion. It's not clear what the next step is. I think that is the main problem. ...

When this is completed, there are several forum sections that should be shut down, namely "Initiatives and Projects", "Taxonomies and Categories", "New Board Requests" (which should have been gone long ago), "Internationalisation" (which is already on the wiki), and probably "Article Policy". 

Well, yes, and then again no.

Jitse's point should not get lost in all of this "theorising" as Denis called it.  Let's take just one of Robert's points as an example, "internationalisation".  Is this really already on the wiki?  I think Rob you may be referring to the page where people were/are asked to list the languages they speak fluently?  That's not a project page in the way the internationalisation threads are here, and they're not "going anywhere" in terms of some relatively easy to do smallish things we could do write now to help frame an internationalisation project.

So my point would be don't just start dropping things without making sure a better system is in place.  I *guess* that's what everyone has in mind, I just wanted to actually state it.

[Larry Sanger]

Hi Meg, welcome to the forums--can you please use your real name here and link to your CZ user page in your sig (footer); see "POSTING RULES" (red title) at the top of the page (intermittently ) or just look at the instructions in my own sig.

I am very sympathetic to what you're saying.  We're already doing a lot differently and we don't use {{fact}} templates and the same sort of disambiguation pages, etc.