Citing Wikipedia

[Robert_W_King]

Just because someone else does it, that doesn't make it a legitimate practise.

[J. Noel Chiappa]

Lot's of Wikipedia articles are reliable sources.

Only if you refer/link to particular version.

That's the whole problem with Wikipedia - some moron can come by and do a drive-by edit, and if someone doesn't catch it, there goes the quality content.

[Pat_Palmer]

I am 100%, and strongly, against any citing of Wikipedia articles, as the one that is there right now may not be there 10 minutes from now.  And, there are so many inaccuracies in the computer articles that it makes my skin crawl.

That said, I look there too when I'm in learning mode.

But CZ should not cite Wikipedia as any kind of authoritative source, because it cannot be trusted to have any oversight on the quality of articles.

[David E. Volk]

The special search link someone provided above confirmed my feeling from checklisting/subpagination that many or most of the WP citations are coming from the new Eduzendium articles.  Unfortunately, so is much of the text in a few limited cases.

Perhaps the EZ teachers should be instructed to tell their students not to do this, and to cite and double check the references given in WP if they use that as a starting point.

[Pat_Palmer]

The special search link someone provided above confirmed my feeling from checklisting/subpagination that many or most of the WP citations are coming from the new Eduzendium articles.  Unfortunately, so is much of the text in a few limited cases.

Perhaps the EZ teachers should be instructed to tell their students not to do this, and to cite and double check the references given in WP if they use that as a starting point.

I think it would be appropriate to suggest this to Eduzendium teachers.

[Aleta Curry]

... Unfortunately, so is much of the text in a few limited cases.

What the...?!  That used to be against the rules when I was in school, and you learned it way early.  By the time we got to uni, it was an instant failing grade for the paper.  (Unless it was truly unconcious plagiarism or some such, and then you had to plead your case)

Perhaps the EZ teachers should be instructed to tell their students not to do this, and to cite and double check the references given in WP if they use that as a starting point.

Yeah, I'd call that a no-brainer, and when you say "double check the references given in WP", shouldn't they be doing that in any case?  Am I just so completely out of touch?

[Hayford Peirce]

Yeah, I'd call that a no-brainer, and when you say "double check the references given in WP", shouldn't they be doing that in any case?  Am I just so completely out of touch?

Join the Lost Generation.... (Or is it the Last Generation?)

[Aleta Curry]

  "Join the Lost Generation.... (Or is it the Last Generation?)"

[Aleta defiantly makes tinned tuna fish sandwich on white bread with double mayo.  Tucks bottle of wine under arm.  Is last seen walking over the hills with her dogs; can be heard muttering incoherently in the distance.]

[Hayford Peirce]

The double mayo is certainly the key -- I myself generally use at least triple. Don't forget the touch of finely chopped celery for a little crunch but not much flavor, green onion tops, salt, pepper, a dash of Tabasco, and a little lemon/lime juice.

And don't let the dogs snatch it from your hand!

[Aleta Curry]

The double mayo is certainly the key -- I myself generally use at least triple.

Yeah, well, I wasn't going to admit that in public.

And I hate celery with a deep and abiding passion.  You must've gone to the same sort of culinary school as my grandfather--he used to chop the celery really finely so I could abide it, too.

And don't let the dogs snatch it from your hand!

They're not allowed to snatch.  However, Zoe is small, lithe and clever enough to climb up on your shoulder, wrap herself snugly around yer neck, and insert her nasty little muzzle between yer mouth and fingertips at exactly the right moment.  Amazing, really, you have to see it in action.

[J. Noel Chiappa]

I am 100%, and strongly, against any citing of Wikipedia articles, as the one that is there right now may not be there 10 minutes from now.

You can fix that issue by linking to a particular version. However, that doesn't change the real problem with Wikipedia (which you identify below), which is that you simply can't trust anything you find there.

I mean, unless one goes through the history, starting with a version that's been completely revised by someone one trusts, and every edit since that version is innocuous (e.g. punctuation, etc), you just don't know. Maybe some Visigoth thought it would be 'funny' to change a date, or something.

Which is not to say that normal reference materials don't have mistakes (I just found one, while working on the Michael Faraday article). But the most important point of CZ is to be more reliable than WP - and we can't do that if we rely on them for content.

The most I would countenance is starting with the WP text, and going from there - provided one is willing to check every last fact in that text. Citing Wikipedia is completely inappropriate. (And if one did start with the Wikipedia text, one should check the 'Content from Wikipedia' flag, which will correctly credit them.)

That said, I look there too when I'm in learning mode.

Sure, so do I; as an intro to a subject, and especially for sources (books, etc).

But CZ should not cite Wikipedia as any kind of authoritative source, because it cannot be trusted

Exactly. Do our policy documents say this, bluntly, e.g.:

'You should never rely on Wikipedia as a source for facts, and thus, should never cite it - if you need to cite it, you have done something wrong.'

If not, our documentation should.

Noel