Deutsches Citizendium

[Edi]

At the moment I am talking to some friends who do web-hosting, to create a petition similar to the second link (GBS). It should be easy for prospects to fill in the forms. Their names, their town, their postal code and mabe their profession could be viewable to the public, but their emailadresses shoud only be available to CZ. So we'll have some people we can contact for a German pilot in addition.

Lieber Sebastian

Es gibt auch fertige Skripts dafür. Beispielsweise unter

http://petitionscript.net/phpPETITION2/index.php

Edi

[Matthias.Lieschke]

Hallo,

wird es nun ein DEUTSCHES Citizendium geben? Wenn nein, wie kann man dabei helfen eines entstehen zu lassen?
Benötigt man Serverkapazitäten für die Software?

Gruss
Contuitus

Mein Englisch ist leider nicht sehr gut.

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Hello,

will there be now a GERMAN Citizendium? When no, how one can help to make one arise?
Does one need server capacities for the software?

Greeting
Contuitus

My English is not unfortunately very good.

[SebastianBreitschafter]

Hi Contuitus!

You have PM

[Edi]

Mich würde der Stand der Dinge auch interessieren...

[SebastianBreitschafter]

OK, the petition for a German Citizendium is available:

http://www.petitiononline.com/gc0207/petition.html

Pleas feel free to sign and to distribute the link to everywhere and to everybody you consider appropriate.

The main intention is to get future citizens together. Therefore one can tick on the "yes"-option to say to be interested in participating in the German pilot. And please, if you choose that option, don't forget to also choose the option "email adress available to petition autor". Then Citizendium will be able to contact you.

Greetings from Munich - Sebastian

[Matthias.Lieschke]

Hallo Sebastian,

einfach nur Perfekt, Danke.

Gruss
Matthias


Hello Sebastian,

simple only perfect tense, thanks.

Greeting
Matthias

[Stephen Ewen]

I think a German CZ would be a great place to begin internationalisation. 

[briandelaney]

A quick, humble suggestion from a newcomer: perhaps we should set up de.citizendium.org, es.citizendium.org, etc., since this is where a lot of people will go looking for information about foreign language versions. On those pages, there could simply be links pointing to more info.

Brian

[Matthias.Lieschke]

I find the idea good. There one could put for example the petition in an online way and/or. the link.

Greeting
Matthias

[Julian Halé]

Hi there,

for me as a (German) I'd like to know what is happening now. I saw the petition is sitting. at around 100 signatures.

Further I'd like to know how an international or especially German version of citizendium is going to work in terms of financing and internal community governance. Is there anything written about that?

Thanks
Julian

[briandelaney]

I find the idea good. There one could put for example the petition in an online way and/or. the link.

Greeting
Matthias

Hm... I still get a "no such page" error at de.citizendium.org. Is anyone with the power to set up de....org reading this? I mean, just whip something up that says "The details of internationalization are still being worked on, please check back in a few months, meanwhile, take a look at en.citizendium.org." How hard is that? As it is, non-English speakers might think, "Anglo-American ignorance strikes again! Forget this, I'll back to Wikipedia." -Brian

[Jason "Electrawn" Potkanski]

I implement that power, and have been watching this thread.

I have some caveats that need to be addressed:

On the technical side:

* I want a single user sign on in place before launching any internationalization.
* I want language integration with the citizendium database. Specifically, I hate bots that run around adding international links and vice versa to wikipedia pages. Some sort of meta database to track different link versions would be preferred.
* I want the page and article texts to be stored in the nation they are serving. For performance and soverignty reasons. They don't belong in Florida.
* Above requires a sysadmin team, bandwidth, servers and probably a legal/corporate entity in Germany.

On the social side:

* A Larry Sanger Editor-In-Chief like german spearhead needs to be active and ready to take the helm.
* Governance issues need to be sorted out. How independent should such an organization be from the main english/international organization? Seperate editorial councils? Should the German editor in chief report to the english one?
* I'm sure Dr. Sanger has many more, this is more his forte.

On the Financial side:

* Probably the biggest way for us to bump this up in priority is the famous movie quote "Show me the money!" If there was a large german philanthropist or foundation willing to support such an effort, it will get worked on very soon.
* Even without such support, it will still get worked on, but would probably be at least a year or two.

-Jason Potkanski

[Julian Halé]

I implement that power, and have been watching this thread.

I have some caveats that need to be addressed:

On the technical side:

* I want a single user sign on in place before launching any internationalization.
* I want language integration with the citizendium database. Specifically, I hate bots that run around adding international links and vice versa to wikipedia pages. Some sort of meta database to track different link versions would be preferred.
* I want the page and article texts to be stored in the nation they are serving. For performance and soverignty reasons. They don't belong in Florida.
* Above requires a sysadmin team, bandwidth, servers and probably a legal/corporate entity in Germany.

On the social side:

* A Larry Sanger Editor-In-Chief like german spearhead needs to be active and ready to take the helm.
* Governance issues need to be sorted out. How independent should such an organization be from the main english/international organization? Seperate editorial councils? Should the German editor in chief report to the english one?
* I'm sure Dr. Sanger has many more, this is more his forte.

On the Financial side:

* Probably the biggest way for us to bump this up in priority is the famous movie quote "Show me the money!" If there was a large german philanthropist or foundation willing to support such an effort, it will get worked on very soon.
* Even without such support, it will still get worked on, but would probably be at least a year or two.

-Jason Potkanski

Übersetzing für deutschprachige Leser von Jason Potanksi:
Es gibt einige Punkte welche noch gelöst werden müssen bevor das Deusche CZ gestarted werden kann:

Das Technische:

* Ich hätte gerne ein single user sign on bevor internationale CZs eingestellt werden.
* Ich hätte gerne eine Sprachintegration mit der CZ Datenbank, da ich automatische Bots wie die auf der Wikipedia hasse. Eine Art Datenbank mit Metadaten für verschiedene Linkversionen wäre eher geeignet.
* Ich hätte gerne die Texte und Seiten des CZ's auf einem lokalen Server gespecihert. Daher das Deutsche CZ auf einem Deutschen Server. Dies hat Leistungs- und Souveränitötsgründe
* All dies benötigt ein Administrationsteam, Bandbreite, Server und wahrscheinlich eine Rechts- als auch Verwaltungseinheit (Körperschaft)

Das Soziale:

* Ein Editor-In-Chief (zu Deutsche eher Chefredakteur) wie Larry Sanger muss sich melden um das Projekt voranzutreiben.
* Verwaltungsfragen müssen entschieden werden, wie z.B. eigenständig das Deutsche CZ ist, ob es eigene Editorial Councils haben soll und ob der Deutsche Editor-In-Chief dem Englischen bericht geben soll.
* Ich bin mir sicher Dr. Sanger hat viele weitere Fragen

Das Finanzielle:

* Um das Projekt zu finanzieren sollte möglicherweise eine Organisation kontaktiert werden, welche sich dem Projekt annimmt.
* Auch ohne dies wird eine Internationalisierung stattfinden, jedoch wird dies ein bis zwei jahre dauern.

*Should there be any translational errors please contact me and I will change it*


Dear Jason, thank you for your reply and letting the German community of CZ know where we are standing.

I would like to address certain issues you have mentioned above, which all are very important and surely are subject to individual discussions.

I myself am not very knowledgable about the technical detail and with it the implementation of it. However, I do believe that you have stated an important matter in terms of the location of the Server. Apart from performance issues, the German law is different towards the US law in terms of copyright and other details. Such differences should be identified (I am afraid to say that but surely the WP has a base for that) and a plan must be made how they can be implemented in the German CZ.
There will be surely initially some complication to find a 100% suitable German sysadmin team, however, the poll above has shown that there is increased interest in CZ and maybe they should be addressed.

Another point I find very important is the governance of the foreign language CZs. Since this implements all kind of issues relating to independency, financing, local regulations etc. I believe this should be discussed by the German community and English contributors and of course Larry himself on a seperate post. I am very fond that such a discussion can prove itself very usefull for not only the German CZ itself, but also for future launches of other CZs.

I am a little bit unsure with the financing aspect. However, I believe you suggest that a German (non-profit?) organisation shall be contacted which would support the project finanancially. This topic surely needs the input of Larry himself and any other person involved in financing the English CZ.

I personally hope that this discussion is being continued and that we will have a German CZ as soon as possible.

Julian

[Karsten Meyer]

Hello,

i am german, and i am coming from the german wikipedia. Last year i signed in Citizendium. My reasons were curiosity and disaffection with the german wikipedia. First i want to watch, how Citizendium developes. Now i have written on some few articles.

I am very interested in a german Citizendium, because it is my own language. But i am not a Professor or something like this. I am an amateur in math (number theory, primes, pseudoprimes, lucas sequence, ...), a computer freak like playing computer games, listening music, wathing movies and many other things.

Karsten Meyer

[Aleta Curry]

Dear Mr Meyer and all our German language speaking colleagues:

The discussion for foreign language CZs has been centralised at: CZ:Proposals/Internationalisation sandbox

Could you please join the brainstorming there?  Right now, the French-language speakers are slightly ahead (in numbers) but there is a vocal German presence as well.

The current driver for the project is Pierre-Alain Gouanvic.

If anything is to go ahead, he will need support, and concrete plans will have to be developed.