Deutsches Citizendium

[huetes]

DE: Wann wird es ein deutsches Citizendium geben?

E: When will it give a German Citizendium?

[Zachary Pruckowski]

English:  When there are enough people interested in making one.  The simple fact is that for the forseeable future (the next six months), we have our hands full.  If German-speakers want to start one, they need to get organized and get in touch with Larry Sanger.  I think that a German Citizendium has the best chance of starting up because there is a strong German Wikipedia, but we don't have a lot of resources to share.

(Schlecht) Deutsche:  Wenn es genügende Leute gibt, die an dem Bilden ein interessiert werden. Die einfache Tatsache ist die während der vorhersehbaren Zukunft (die folgenden sechs Monate), wir haben nicht sehr viele Zeit um Ihren zu helfen. Wenn Deutsch-sprechern ein beginnen möchten, müssen sie organisiert erhalten und in Kontakt mit Larry Sanger treten. Ich denke, daß ein deutsches Citizendium die beste Wahrscheinlichkeit von oben beginnen hat, weil es ein starkes deutsches Wikipedia gibt, aber wir haben nicht eine Menge, Betriebsmittel zu teilen.

Note:  German is mostly from Babelfish (no practice in two years)

[Larry Sanger]

I've got an idea.  Why don't you start a petition, or gather other evidence that there is a demand for this?  I would also like to see a careful, high-level analysis of the need for this for the German WP.  Are the issues I have identified with the English WP similar in the German WP--or are the projects, as I imagine could be the case and as some people have told me, actually rather different?

I would like to read a position paper (or a series of position papers) summarizing such evidence.  It would be nice to be able to show such a paper to German foundations.  An excellent place to post such a paper would be the Citizendium-world mailing list.

All this being said, I think that the experience of starting the project in one language will provide valuable lessons for doing the same in other languages.  Wikipedia itself started the same way, you know.

[Oliver Hauss]

In some ways, the two are rather different, in others, they are actually quite similar. They're different in that the German Wikipedia has some radical and vociferous exclusionist administrators who're very active in the AFD sector generating a semblance of "quality" by excluding a lot of material that english Wikipedia would tolerate. They're similar in that there's also a discussion on how to attract more experts in German Wikipedia. The problem I see there is that a lot of very active people tolerate expertise only where it doesn't collide with their own opinion, but that's my personal 2c.

[SebastianBreitschafter]

To make it short: According to my statment here http://textop.org/smf/index.php?topic=134.15 I see a big vacuum in the German-speaking area. We can fill it, or someone else will do it someday. How many people do we need at least for a german pilot? In what fields?

[SebastianBreitschafter]

(By the way: my questions were just rhetorical)

[River]

 I do not understand German but I like the "Petition for a German Citizendium" made by Sebastian Breitschafter.

http://www.textop.org/wiki/index.php?title=Petition_for_a_German_Citizendium

[ency]

hi
darf ich hier auch deutsch schreiben?

wo soll ich mich nun eintragen ?

die Petition ist gestoppt?

an wen richtet sich die Petition?

können wir das nicht einfach ohne P  machen?

mfg
rainer

[Larry Sanger]

Sie koennen doch auf Deutsch schreiben, aber nicht viele Leute werden antworten koennen.

Warum sagen Sie die Petition ist gestoppt?

Vielleicht, eine Petition darf unnotig sein.  Wahrscheinlich wir werden die Frage entscheiden, fuer alle Sprache gesamt, nicht nur fuer Deutsch.  Aber eine Petition werde die richtige Antwort klarer machen.

Tut mir Leid fuer mein Deutsch.

[ency]

Dear Larry Sanger

Your german ist  perfect readable but I try it with english

A petition is useful to make a bundle of whishes:

My  hope  is  to  make a better encyclopedia , not more secure but with more quality

My idea is, to split the articles in single sentences and test each sentence, if its true.

The first sentences  are definitions

Example :

Umts is a transferprotocol
Umts is a synonym for handys with high datarate
Umts has …
Umts was …
Umts can..
Umts wil…

This information is also readable  with handys, and later accessible by speech.

Each sentence has a best next sentence or links to other aspects
Each sentence has an author and a history

More in my searchengine  www.ency.de  (very alfa)

in my  http://www.ency.de/logiceng.php I try to get the best sentences with a logic-test (later)

I hope we can work together

[Edi]

What has happened to the "Petition for a German Citizendium"? It's time for something like Citizendium and a German Citizendium, because the German Wikipedia becomes more and more a site of disinformation.

At the moment there is an interesting campaign by Bild.de: Wiki-Fehlia.

Was ist aus der "Petition for a German Citizendium" geworden? Es ist an der Zeit, dass es etwas wie Citizendium gibt und ein deutsches Citizendium, da die deutschsprachige Wikipedia mehr und mehr zu einem Ärgernis wird.

Eine Kampagne wie Wiki-Fehlia von Bild.de war eigentlich längst überfällig.

Edi

[Simon Koelsch]

I don't think the petition is stopped or something, I think you should just exercise patience.
Maybe Sebastian Breitschafter can clearify the situation a little bit?

   1. Please do not sign
   2. Bitte nicht unterschreiben
   3. Thank you / Danke

at the end of the page is a little bit confusing but you should recognize

PLEASE DO NOT SIGN, THE PETITION WILL BE HOSTED BY A DEDICATED SERVICE . --Sebastian Breitschafter 00:47, 9 November 2006 (PST)

at the top of the page.

To make it short: According to my statment here http://textop.org/smf/index.php?topic=134.15 [...]

Sorry, but where can I find this statement?
If I follow this link, I'm just redirected to http://forum.citizendium.org/

At the moment there is an interesting campaign by Bild.de: Wiki-Fehlia.

Sorry for the hard words, but this so called 'campaign' is just bullshit.
I see the problems of the Wikipedia and especially of the German Wikipedia, otherwise I wouldn't be here.
Are you really serious that you accept facts of the "Bild Zeitung" or bild.de without having proved them? :-/
Please compare http://www.bildblog.de/?p=1826 and then think about it again.

For people who don't know bild.de or 'Bild Zeitung": Its a big german daily newspaper but not a reliable source for information. It defames people, takes proved false information for true and harms a lot of people with that behavior. I don't know the exact translation, but I think you can call it a gutter paper.

And now my 2c ;-)
I don't think we should start a german CZ right now at this moment.
Give CZ just the time to evolve a little bit, get a bigger community, spread the word and let it organize itself.
After that we should look at the present structures and then decide if it make sense to build something similar. Maybe this 'review process' could then be also helpful for the english CZ.

[SebastianBreitschafter]

Hello Edi, hello Simon, hello to all of you!

First of all Sorry, Sorry, Sorry for so long not answering. Of course the petition will take place. It was just prepared on the TOP wiki to have a translation of the CZ Charta and an outline available.

As written on the TOP wiki, the petition should be hosted by a dedicated service. Here is a link to a so called "petition hosting service": I-Petitions And here an individually designed and hosted Petition: GBS-Petition.

At the moment I am talking to some friends who do web-hosting, to create a petition similar to the second link (GBS). It should be easy for prospects to fill in the forms. Their names, their town, their postal code and mabe their profession could be viewable to the public, but their emailadresses shoud only be available to CZ. So we'll have some people we can contact for a German pilot in addition.

I think Simon is right in not doing things to early. Anyway, it could still take a few weeks to bring the petition online. But therefore it will be well-prepared. If one of you should know a good petition service offering such an appropriate structure like the GBS one, just let us know.

So long - greetings from Munich

[ency]

hi
ich versteh nicht ganz, müssen wir ne Bürgerinitiative gründen, um ein Citizendi  in Deutsch machen zu "dürfen".
ich dachte es geht um die inhaltliche Ausformulierung.
wer kann mir helfen?

[Edi]

ich versteh nicht ganz, müssen wir ne Bürgerinitiative gründen, um ein Citizendi  in Deutsch machen zu "dürfen".

So, wie ich es verstehe, geht es bei der Petition darum zu zeigen, dass (grosses) Interesse an einem deutschsprachigen Citizendium besteht.

Edi