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Author Topic: Conflict: what exactly is the problem?  (Read 4239 times)
Larry Sanger
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« on: August 29, 2007, 10:49:03 AM »

[I've put this on the Charter board, because ultimately I think it will require a solution that concerns the basic, cross-project principles; conflict is ultimately a problem that involves every governance aspect of CZ.]

Clearly, we have a problem about talk page conflict.  But what is the problem, precisely?

I have already gone on at very great length earlier about what the problem is.  But I mostly considered some examples and drew some generalizations based on those few examples.  I said that the causes of talk page conflicts were a tendency to lose the thread of the discussion (and move toward broad issues of controversy), the desire to be right, and plain old rudeness; and that Partisanship Will Find a Way.  But I still did not say what the problem itself was.

With more perspective, I think I've done a better job, below, getting at what the problem is.  See if you agree with me.

But first, let me give some sample (i.e., possible) answers:

  • Behavioral issues: in some cases, editors are, or authors are, upset, leaving, and being treated shabbily.
  • Operational issues: we sometimes fail to reach resolutions of talk page disputes efficiently.
  • Policy issues: we sometimes break rules such as professionalism and neutrality; we engage in a pattern of discussion that essentially represents a failure to respect policy.
  • The Basic Issue: we get into acrimonious conflict.  This is bad in itself, and the more of it, the worse.

There are probably some more answers, but these ones indicate that the problem is actually multifaceted, and we may benefit by having the answers to several questions, which I will take up immediately after asking them below.

What, at root, is the problem we're trying to solve?

We may have different theories about this, but I think the root problem is conflict of a certain kind: when one contributor wants to do A (for example, have the article make a certain claim), and another wants to do not-A, and neither will back down.  The immediate impact of conflict is typically a verbal exchange on the talk page, often angry or contemptuous.

Who exactly is affected by the problem?

All contributors are affected.  The actual participants, whether authors or editors, as well as bystanders.

What is their response (i.e., emotional reactions as well as actions)?

Beyond the angry or contemptuous exchange itself, everyone feels frustrated.  Authors thwarted by editors feel underappreciated and disrespected.  Editors under pressure from authors feel stymied and disappointed.  When authors go head-to-head with authors, or editors with editors, not only is there often a general sense that one is not being respected adequately and that one's points are not fully appreciated, there is a feeling of helplessness in that there is no established method, that one can trust is fair, of resolving disputes.

As to actions, there's fight and flight.  Some people will simply back down in the face of most opposition.  (These are "the meek," and they will inherit the wiki.)  Many contributors will attempt to be polite in how they engage in conflict, and sometimes there are people who are polite on both sides--and they actually work things out themselves, so that one comes to agree with the other, or they reach some compromise.  Frequently, however, there is one person (and not infrequently two) who make things worse, in various ways--I won't bother enumerating the ways, as they are many.  Then, some bystanders seem to be positively attracted to strife, and they join in and make things even more unpleasant.

Conflict will drive some people away, either because they don't want to deal with what they regarded as time-wasting unpleasantness in the first place, or because (after things have gotten bad) they have had their fill of insults and innuendo.  This applies especially, but not only, to people who don't get their way.  Even people who do get their way, just not fast enough, can give up and leave.

In short:

(1) Conflict causes people to treat each other poorly.
(2) Conflict causes some people to leave the project altogether.
(3) Conflict tends to undercut the motivation of people to contribute.

What adverse aspects (or immediate effects) are there of the problem, in terms of the processes or content of the project?

With people leaving the project and the general community dismayed at conflict, content development can suffer.  Moreover, the failure to address confict constructively acts as an impediment to smooth community relations--which, in turn, makes it that much harder to collaborate.

The above personal and community problems tend to overshadow what might be a more fundamental problem: namely, the failure to credibly solve the source of conflict in the first place.  Conflict tends to die out after the grounds for conflict are removed--after a definitive decision has been reached.  Actual progress sometimes can't be made until after a conflict is resolved; failure to resolve the conflict itself tends to be a roadblock to progress.

Given the answers to all these questions, what is the best solution to the problem?

I think it is important, in solving problems, to attack the root of the problem as aggressively as possible.  I think the root of our conflicts (and of conflict generally, perhaps) is quite simply the failure to resolve the underlying disagreement in a credible, mutually agreeable way.  So the problem of conflict can be resolved ultimately by credible establishing avenues for, indeed, resolving the underlying disagreement.

Let me underline something: usually, the reason for conflict on the wiki is not just some irrational personal friction; it comes down to disagreements about content and about policy.  In short, we disagree about how a particular article shall read, and we disagree about how we should proceed in general.  Personal quirks can exacerbate the ill effects of these disagreements, but the problem is the disagreements themselves!

What we need, then, is a method, or methods, for resolving those disagreements.  We need to focus on clarifying how all inter-contributor disagreements should be resolved.  Then, when that's clarified, rather than bickering on talk pages, as soon as we recognize that we indeed have a disagreement, the appropriate decision-making process kicks in.

(I would, by the way, prefer to call this a "decision-making process" instead of a "dispute resolution process," because it is possible for well-meaning, polite Citizens to have a disagreement without having anything so ugly as a "dispute" that needs "resolution."  Two people with a disagreement may know one of them must give way, and they may be happy to give way if the decision is made according to a just, regular process.  In that case, they really don't have a dispute; they simply need a decision made.)

What's up next, then, is a proposal for a unified decision-making process--one that incorporates the decision-making bodies and processes that we already have in place, of course.
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Larry Sanger
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2007, 11:18:06 AM »

I suggest above that we need a "unified decision-making process."  What do I mean by that?  I mean a process that "kicks in" whenever two Citizens have any sort of conflict.  If we document this process, then anybody who gets into a conflict can refer to the document and learn what to do next.

To do this, I think what we need to do is to enumerate the different types of conflict and, essentially, create a workflow for the different types.  We can distinguish types functionally, i.e., precisely by whether they require different kinds of resolution.  And I can see already, as I think about this, that the gaping holes in our governance as set up right now; we will have to create a number of new policy points to have a "unified decision-making process."

I would distinguish types of conflict based on what entities respond to them--provisionally, these:
(1a) Individual editors
(1b) Workgroup
(1c) Editorial Council
(2a) Individual constables
(2b) The Constabulary
(3) The Judicial Board
(4) The Editor-in-Chief
(5) In the future: the Board of Directors

(More to come, but feel free to reply to what I have so far!)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 12:02:59 PM by Larry Sanger » Logged

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Thomas Mandel
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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2007, 12:10:25 PM »

I had one of those eureka moments in what some might say is a conflict here. While looking at what I thought was nonsense, I tried to put myself in the others viewpoint. Subsequently I was able to find a way to rephrase the other viewpoint so that it made sense to me.

The eureka moment was my realization that while in the other viewpoint, I saw different things that I did not see from my viewpoint.
It wasn't that I saw a middle ground, or a compromise, but that the other viewpoint saw everything differently, and only when I looked from the other viewpoint could I find a way to rephrase other so that it made sense to me. 

The point is that me and other each saw our positions as correct, and INDEED, from our individual viewpoints what we saw was what we were looking at. So people in conflict can possibly hold correct positions from their viewpoint, and subsequently each will not be able/willing to make that step (as if they were wrong) toward mutual agreement. .
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Larry Sanger
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2007, 12:20:27 PM »

Folks, I am going to take this onto the wiki, because I think I'm actually working up a proposal, as you'll see: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Conflict_Resolution
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Martin Baldwin-Edwards
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2007, 12:27:13 PM »

Thomas: this is the traditional academic role, to be able to comprehend competing views and analyses. It is also why academics are sometimes characterised as being unable to make up their minds, as wobbling in their opinions etc.  Grin

Of course, in the modern world most academics merely collect money for research, so the caricature has receded. It is not a bad idea to promote its revival.
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David Goodman
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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2007, 07:14:20 PM »

I think I have been probably been affected by working first at Wikipedia, but almost all of the comments cited in the postings referred to bey Larry seem fairly mild and tolerant. I see no personal abuse--I just see a tendency towards the use of un-nuanced statement. It's reasonable though to start of by stating a position, and then see how much elaboration in needs, and challenging someone's position is not necessarily objectionable conflict. Online discussions tend not be remain focused very tightly, and I see nothing in all of this which should not be able to come to a compromise.
I think it perfectly reasonable for someone to  at least assert that the scholarly consensus still is that Jesus did live, though there may not be consensus about what he did. And similarly it is also true that intelligent people will not necessarily agree about whether some aspects of intelligent design are science, or should be dealt with by a science workgroup. the discussion of these is not edit warring.
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Supten
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2007, 11:00:52 PM »

Thomas: this is the traditional academic role, to be able to comprehend competing views and analyses. It is also why academics are sometimes characterised as being unable to make up their minds, as wobbling in their opinions etc. 
Of course, in the modern world most academics merely collect money for research, so the caricature has receded. It is not a bad idea to promote its revival.
Oscar Wilde(?) had said something like one who can see both sides of the coin sees nothing at all! However, presently most of the disciplines are converging because of serious multi-disciplinary interactions and respect for each others' domain expertise.
Folks, I am going to take this onto the wiki, because I think I'm actually working up a proposal, as you'll see: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Conflict_Resolution
Will the proposed Editorial Appeals Committe be formed from an Editorial Appeals Workgroup or ALL the editors will comprise the Editorial Appeals Workgroup?
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Larry Sanger
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2007, 09:27:32 AM »

Folks, I am going to take this onto the wiki, because I think I'm actually working up a proposal, as you'll see: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Conflict_Resolution
Will the proposed Editorial Appeals Committe be formed from an Editorial Appeals Workgroup or ALL the editors will comprise the Editorial Appeals Workgroup?

Actually, neither.  I am now thinking that it should be called the Content Review Committee, and that it should be a subcommittee (or an "inferior court") of the to-be-created Judicial Board--and that it may have some author members.
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Pat_Palmer
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2007, 07:32:33 PM »

I agree, in general, with Larry's description of the issues, based on my few months in Citizendium.  I have become frustrated, a few times in fact, because there was no way to get a disagreement looked at systematically; and in many of those cases, neither I nor the other person knew how to proceed, exactly.  So in some cases, I felt frustrated because another person just kept on keeping on despite my registered disagreement.  Either they didn't know how frustrating I found it to be "run over", or they didn't care, or maybe they just didn't know how to go about pulling in some kind of editorial or community scrutiny to help us out of the impasse.

Just as we can mark a page with {{speedydelete}}, it would be nice to be able to include a flag such as {{unresolved issue}} that would get into a queue somewhere and get looked at by the appropriate deciders.
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Matt Innis
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2007, 09:39:12 PM »

Just as we can mark a page with {{speedydelete}}, it would be nice to be able to include a flag such as {{unresolved issue}} that would get into a queue somewhere and get looked at by the appropriate deciders.

It would be nice as a constable to be able to start my day by going to the {{unresolved issue}} page to see where I need to be rather than scanning all the talk pages to see if I am needed somewhere. Sometimes what looks like controversy to me is just chatter to the editors, and sometimes I think they are getting along fine, but then find out somebody left the project because they were upset. Undecided
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Aleta Curry
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« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2007, 10:01:26 PM »

Just as we can mark a page with {{speedydelete}}, it would be nice to be able to include a flag such as {{unresolved issue}} that would get into a queue somewhere and get looked at by the appropriate deciders.

Good idea.  Maybe I'm doing too much reading between the lines, Pat, and I certainly don't want to put words into your mouth, but it seems that it's less the actual controversy that's bothering you and more a feeling that what is important to you is not being credited/valued?  I can certainly understand that, and Matt alludes to it below.
For me, a corollary is people answering/arguing/debating not what I actually (thought I) was asking, but what they thought I was asking.
 

It would be nice as a constable to be able to start my day by going to the {{unresolved issue}} page to see where I need to be rather than scanning all the talk pages to see if I am needed somewhere. Sometimes what looks like controversy to me is just chatter to the editors, and sometimes I think they are getting along fine, but then find out somebody left the project because they were upset. Undecided (emphasis added)

yes, Matt, I think this is a good point.  I'm not really all that concerned about folks who leave in a huff, but when good people leave out of frustration and it was preventable, well, I think that's a waste.

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