Catalog or Catalogue

[ASweeney]

While its generally clear when to use American English or British/International English spellings within articles, we need to have a clear ruling for words that are going to be used in a 'Citizendium' style.  We're using "Catalog of X" instead of "List of X" as article titles - e.g., the various "Catalog of X cuisine" articles.  Problem is the alternate spelling, Catalogue.  I've just come across an article, [[World Heritage site]], which has links to "Catalogue of World Heritage Sites in X", for example.  Should those links (they're all redlinks at the moment) be edited to Catalog?

[Martin Baldwin-Edwards]

There is some complex issue of piping which I do not understand, which is discussed here:

Piping refers to putting a pipe character into the link. That is this | character.

The name before the pipe mark is the article linked to. The name after the pipe mark is the text displayed as the link in the referring article. So using the code I put in the previous post You would link to catalog but display catalogue.

You should ask Derek about it. I have given up on technical complexities with these things.

[ASweeney]

Piping isn't a solution in this case, as display isn't the issue, its the series of links which may be created.

For instance, I create an article:

[[Catalogue of Irish cuisine]]

Any author could make it display as Catalog by typing [[Catalogue of Irish cuisine|Catalog of Irish cuisine]] within an article linking to it.  But for the link to work, they must use the British/international spelling of Catalogue before the pipe.

Now, redirects can be created from [[Catalogue... ]] articles to point at their respective [[Catalog... ]] articles - but it would seem better to head the issue off at the pass - at least for words that are going to be used in many article titles?

[Aleta Curry]

Right.  I understand your question.

AFAIK, the answer is that at present we have no answer.  This has only been settled for variants within an article.

I have been blithely creating catalogues, where (I thought) appropriate, and redirecting "catalog". 

One of these was changed; one wasn't.

I think you're right; we'll have to make a decision before too long.  I think an alternate word is called for; see the other thread.

[Martin Baldwin-Edwards]

Well, if you're telling me that there has to be one spelling, althouigh there can be different displays, I suppose it will have to be US spelling. This is through sheer force of numbers. I am reluctant to put in the resolution that there should be US spelling. I am still uncertain about what the technical possibilities are.

[Arne Eickenberg]

Well, if you're telling me that there has to be one spelling, althouigh there can be different displays, I suppose it will have to be US spelling. This is through sheer force of numbers. I am reluctant to put in the resolution that there should be US spelling. I am still uncertain about what the technical possibilities are.

Not only through the sheer force of numbers. I'm neither a native speaker nor an English linguist, but as far as I know, language development mostly follows the path of least resistance and tends toward simplification. (Example from German for "dolphin": Delphin [old], Delfin [new].) In this case the A.E. catalog is the simpler spelling, the more modern and therefore preferrable version. Furthermore, it's a bit closer to the original Latin/Greek word; and the B.E. catalogue is obviously a contaminant related to the French word catalogue. (Cp. e.g. B.E. mould vs. A.E. mold [modern Fr. moule] etc.)

Besides, the CZ servers are obviously in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Maybe we should also assign some of our linguists to spellings in dispute to decide which spelling to use, with pragmatism, not national bias.

[Martin Baldwin-Edwards]

I am sure that my fellow Brits will be delighted to hear that you find the spelling to have been contaminated by the French. Two insults in one!

You are right about trying to avoid national bias: I fear that the contemporary UK is not the place to start this reform, though. They still think that Europe is something across the sea and nothing to do with them. And the USA is a colony gone wrong, albeit with money and oil, managed by a buffoon. This latter is also my view, more or less.

[Arne Eickenberg]

I am sure that my fellow Brits will be delighted to hear that you find the spelling to have been contaminated by the French. Two insults in one!

Hehe, yeah. Etymology is never unpolitical. The English stable boy took care of "pigs", "sheep" and "cows", all words from the Germanic languages. The francophile ruling class was however eating their flesh as "pork" (porc), "mutton" (mouton) and "beef" (boeuf)… just to explain what these French "contaminants" often imply.

You are right about trying to avoid national bias: I fear that the contemporary UK is not the place to start this reform, though. They still think that Europe is something across the sea and nothing to do with them. And the USA is a colony gone wrong, albeit with money and oil, managed by a buffoon. This latter is also my view, more or less.

The problem is not so much deciding between AE and BE. The problem is that English is a global lingua franca, and this international global variant of English is (to say the least) meagre, because lots of non-native speaker are forced to use English, and lots of native speakers reduce the complexity of their English for maximum comprehensibility. This new "international English" has to be avoided at all costs.

[Denis Cavanagh]

I'm sure we could make redirects?

[Greg Woodhouse]

Well, if you're telling me that there has to be one spelling, althouigh there can be different displays, I suppose it will have to be US spelling. This is through sheer force of numbers. I am reluctant to put in the resolution that there should be US spelling. I am still uncertain about what the technical possibilities are.

In my opinion, US Americans (of which I am one) who cannot abide a few catalogues deserve no sympathy. May they be condemned to changing knappies until they grow old and grey!

Did I say that? 

[Stephen Ewen]

In my opinion, US Americans (of which I am one) who cannot abide a few catalogues deserve no sympathy. May they be condemned to changing knappies until they grow old and grey!

Did I say that? 

  

I agree, American I am.  Still, I think the best solution is to avoid the matter.  What word besides catalog/catalogue could be used?  Can we nail one down?

[Fredrik Johansson]

"List"?

[Martin Baldwin-Edwards]

List was rejected by Larry, in previous discussions, as I recall.

[Stephen Ewen]

There's got to be a dozen or so ideas out there. 

To me, List just sounds to plain.

[Martin Baldwin-Edwards]

INVENTORY

You Yankees pronounce it funny, but we all spell it the same